Skip to main content

tv   Politics and Public Policy Today  CSPAN  May 20, 2016 3:00pm-5:01pm EDT

3:00 pm
edge technologies for tomorrow. his 30-year career in the marine corps included 14 years in the astronaut office and he would travel into orbit four times commanding two space shuttle missions and piloting two others and his flights included the d deployment of the hubble face telescope and the first joint u.s./russian mission. dean kamen, the founder of first or for inspiration and recognition of science and technology. dean kamen is an inventor, inventor and entrepreneur and a tireless advocate for science and technology. his roles as an inventor and advocate are intertwined with his passion for technology and his practical uses. it's driven by his personal determination to spread the word about technology's virtues and by so doing to change the
3:01 pm
culture of the united states. as an inventor he holds more than 440 u.s. and foreign patents, many of them for innovative medical devices expanding the frontier of health care worldwide. while still a college undergraduate he invented the first wearable infusion pump which gained acceptance from chemotherapy and neonatology and endodrinology. he later founded decca research and development corporation to develop internally generated inventions and provide research and development for major corporate clients. one of kamen's proudest accomplishments is the founding of f.i.r.s.t. to motivate the
3:02 pm
next generation to use science and technology. let me acknowledge we've had a group of young scholars with us throughout the year who are federal executive fellows, many of them in class this morning, but i believe we have one that is joining us this morning as well. a federal executive fellow who is bringing his tour to an end. it is a young marine corps recently promoted colonel by the name of jay bolden, so we're in the presence this morning of not just two great marine but two great marine fighter pilots and it's a great honor for us to be in their presence as well. >> his mother loves it. >> i'll also mention, this is for my brookings employers, i never miss the opportunity to do preparations for a session like this. i was on an airplane flying to the balkans at the end of last week on a turkish airlines flight and i looked up on the television and there was neil degrasse tyson interviewing administrator bolden about the mars mission and the nature of
3:03 pm
technology that nasa has brought to every single day and the session concluded with neil asking when nasa will produce a flying car as i recall. so, i never miss the opportunity to prepare for these sessions and initially i thought it was amazing that you had learned to speak turkish but i realized i was on the wrong channel and changed my technological approach to the english channel only to learn it was a great session as well. this morning we'll have opening remarks and i'll invite mr. kamen to go first. >> it would take me longer to explain first than an efficiently done video which shows the background of f.i.r.s.t. and it's told to you by god, morgan freeman, who like a lot of people in hollywood and the world of superathletes that
3:04 pm
i've gotten behind f.i.r.s.t., he would help us. i said, morgan, do you know what you could read the phone book and people would pay attention. so put together some short introduction that really captures what f.i.r.s.t. is. he did it four or five years ago so the data he is weak compared. this year we had 46,000 schools from 83 countries. but what you need to understand is, you know, i'm an inventor. what do inventors do. we look at the same problems as everybody else and see them differently. and 25 years ago when it was still urgent, when we were 29th in math and 22nd in science even back then in the industrialized world which puts us at the bottom, let's be clear, we were in washington and everywhere always talking about there's a crisis in education. look at the problem differently. i said, no, there's not a crisis in education. even in those years, as today,
3:05 pm
we spend more per capita on education per student in the united states than anywhere else in the world. we have great schools. we have great universities and stanford and m.i.t. and -- so, what's the problem? the problem is a very all? group of kids care about that. it's not an education problem. it's a culture problem. in a free country by america you get the best of what you celebrate and we celebrate to obsession two things, the world of sports and the world of entertainment. 25 years ago i said there's a system that inspires kids to fenld their time and their energy becoming expert at something that really matters to them but probably not wisely for their career. but let's use that model. but instead of teaching them how to bounce a ball, let's give them the skill sets to create careers to create industries to make sure this country stays where it needs to be, and if we celebrate science and tech the same way we do the other things particularly for women and minorities that just are not even present in science and tech back then.
3:06 pm
so, i called on industry to help me. and i said the business of america is business. you can't blame the schools. you can't blame the gym teacher if kids aren't going to be good at cricket and if you put cricket in the curriculum and they do it for 45 minutes thursday morning before phonics once a week they won't become super. because they'll fenspend three hours after school playing basketball and football and mom and dad will show up. we have great athletes, but not great cricket players. that's not a department of education problem. i need the lebron james of science and tech, they exist in our big companies. in year one of this competition i had 23 of these companies. this year i had 3,700 corporate sponsors. but this is not an ad, where do you find superstars of tech that kids even in our culture? you find them at nasa. astronauts. so, from year two on, not year one, but by year two when we went from 23 teams to 46 teams
3:07 pm
we had a nasa team. then by year three more nasa teams and as of last year the largest single source of f.i.r.s.t. teams around the country was nasa and we're very proud of f.i.r.s.t. associated with nasa and what they've done to us. but to prove to us that it's impactful on all kids, i'm going to show you the 2:54 introduction to f.i.r.s.t., his data is five years old. it's way bigger. but listen to god. can we do that? >> this is the super bowl. the super bowl of smarts, that is. it's a life-changing competition. it's kids having fun, competing, working together, to dream up, design and build robots. >> just an exhilarating feeling. i'm using power tools! >> having the hardest fun they'll ever have, and they're becoming our next generation of engineers and innovators.
3:08 pm
f.i.r.s.t., for inspiration and recognition of science and technology. my teachers were some of the greatest influences on my life. by challenging and trusting me, these mentors got me to understand that i could do anything i put my mind to. ♪ f.i.r.s.t. mentors are changing kids' lives every day. professional engineers, teachers, parents, teaming up with young people not just to build robots, but to build confidence and self-respect. >> i'm around people that i can get along with that i can talk computer lingo with. >> it was founded by one of our greatest inventors dean kamen. he saw that kids usually look up to sports heroes and movie stars. >> we said if you have a culture obsessed with sports and entertainment, let's inspire the kids to be big thinkers the same way that shaquille o'neal can inspire them to spend dozen of hours a week bouncing a ball.
3:09 pm
>> our president agrees. >> scientists and engineers ought to stand side by stand with athletes and entertainers as role models and here we'll lead by example and show young people how cool science can be. >> 250,000 kids age 6 to 18 compete at all different levels. in two first leggo lead, the first tech challenge. and at the high school level the first robotics competition. >> the only difference between this sport and alls ths the oth every kid on our teams can turn pro. there's a job out there for every one of these kids. >> robots! >> students who take part in f.i.r.s.t. are 50% more likely to go to college and twice as likely to major in science or engineering. >> i definitely know that i want to pursue engineering. >> once they've tasted what the power of knowledge is, that it can be fun and rewarding, they won't go back.
3:10 pm
>> there's no doubt f.i.r.s.t. works. >> 10 or 15 or 20 years from today some kid in those stands will have cured alzheimer's or aids or cancer or built an engine that doesn't pollute. look at these kids. they're the future. >> i feel like i can go and do anything i want to do because of this program. >> someone took the time to guide and inspire me. it changed my life. take some time. go to usfirst.org. >> terrific. well done. let me invite administrator bolden for his remarks as well, and then we'll go to some "q" and "a." >> first of all, a big message i want to give you is nasa's on a journey to mars, so i don't want you to miss that this morning if you hear nothing else. but how do we get there and a
3:11 pm
lot of the stuff dean talked about is critically important. we need young men and women from all over the place who will help to us do that. if you go to the johnson space center today, not a commercial for f.i.r.s.t., but you'll find that about half the engineers in our robotics there at the johnson space center were participants in the f.i.r.s.t. program when they were in high school. so, there's great benefit from it. we're using our missions to try to inspire the youth of today. i tell young people nasa has a 3 $.2 billion budget. we spend 19.3 billion on s.t.e.m. education. everything we do is related to try to get young people interested in and we call it "steam" and we've extended it to be "steamed" and "a" is for the arts and hopefully we'll have an opportunity to talk about the value of the arts and design, because there is a new community of people called makers and these are young men and women who have an incredible bit
3:12 pm
ability to visualize and make things. i'm privileged to have a young man -- he doesn't know i'm going to do this, but tom cobo is shadowing me today. he's an engineer at the glenn research center in cleveland, ohio, he's a graduate of historically black college where he majored in architecture and he said he always wanted to build things, to make things. so, spent time in the army but never gave up on his desire to build and make things and today is an architect. lashoda holmes is a white house fellow and went to spellman college in atlanta, georgia, and met a coast guard recruiter who talked to her about the coast guard and today she flies helicopters in the coast guard. and science and technology and the arts and design are
3:13 pm
critically important for our kids today so that's the one thing i want to say there. we believe that you advance the nation's s.t.e.m. program and you put yourself in a situation where you're able to compete with any country, anywhere, anytime, any place. that's what the president talks about all the time. we have created cooperations, collaborations with many other federal agencies. we work with the department of education on something called 21st century communities and learning. we work with the department of agriculture in their 4-h program and other programs to try and promote the things that the department of agriculture does. the former assistant secretary of agriculture actually planted some seeds in the department of agriculture garden that had come back from the international space station and they were seeds that were just like the lettuce that had grown the lettuce that astronauts eat on the international space station
3:14 pm
in preparation for going to mars. so, youth engagement in s.t.e.m. at every level is critically important. our priority lies with women and minorities because they represent a huge portion of our population. if you look at women today they're greater than 50% of the population. we believe that you cannot leave that behind and succeed. you cannot leave that portion of the population behind and -- and be better than other people. so, really, really, really important. let me say one thing about f.i.r.s.t. and i'll share with you a letter from a principal who was at a school where recently he had some nasa engineers come out and visit. this was a school in west virginia. and the southern part of west virginia had never had anything like this. had some engineers from art, iv & v and they came out and visited his kids and they're a middle school. he said i want to let you know how much it meant for the children for you to come to our
3:15 pm
school. 75% of the students are on free and reduced lunch, this means that our children have less chance than 80% of the students to make it out of high school. the community is riddled with drugs, homelessness and generational post-. the children need to see it's possible to make themselves into someone who counts, someone who can help change the world. the younger students came to me and wondered if you would be back for them. this was after the engineers left because it was too good to be true and they wanted to know if they would ever come back again, i told them that i sure hope so. they went away with big smiles. we would love for you to come back next year. put us on your calendar for april, 2017. thank you so much for your commitment to the children of west virginia and that's through a s.t.e.m. program out of nasa. s.t.e.m. is not monolithic. that's the other thing we need to understand. we need people with not only science and technology background interests but we need people willing to engage their
3:16 pm
hearts and minds and people that don't under tstand the arts, designers who can build little things like 3-d printers and the like that we're currently using on the international space station. we believe it's critical and we want to talk about it a lot today hopefully and if we can fire you up to tell people that you come in contact that it's just as important to have a young student who will be an all-star on a f.i.r.s.t. court or somewhere else as it is to be an all-star basketball player we will have achieved our goal i think. >> terrific, thank you for those terrific remarks. let me ask several questions and we'll have a conversation up here and then we'll go to the floor for additional questions. we've used the term s.t.e.a.m., can we talk a little bit about each one of those components and are any of them more important than the others, or any of them worthy of more investment given
3:17 pm
the current situation than the others. and i think we've laid a good groundwork with your opening remarks to lay this out. but this is important i think. let's get a baseline and a definitional approach to s.t.e.m. or s.t.e.a.m. this morning and for the audience at brookings, please. >> i think education as we all knew it, although we're all different ages, the first and the last, the "s" and the "m," for better or worse they try to teach in school. we all took a science class every year. it was putting pins in frogs one year and we all take math. we learn to count. and then we learn, you know, algebra and trigonometry and some of us learned it. some of us didn't learn it. but it was also there so "s" and "m" are there. i think the reason that those weren't well -- it wasn't a lot of passion around them in kids is because they're out of
3:18 pm
context. there was nothing that a kid ever did in life for which, you know, trigonometry would help them. you don't go to a store and a 10% discount is the cosine and putting pins in frogs wasn't relevant but the "t" and the "e" in the middle is really cool. every kid that hates science, loves "star wars." every kid thatates engineeri enneering, they're wearing supercomputers. they're immersed in the results of engineering. so, to me, what industries got to bring, what our culture has to bring to this the schools, is the relevance by which it will be important to kids to do the hard work of learning the science, you know, learning -- math is not easy. it takes in multiple years to learn all of that. but there has to be a purpose. kids would not bounce a ball every day for an hour a day if there weren't an nba. they just wouldn't do it. to me the average teacher may be very good at doing the science
3:19 pm
part and the math part the same way that the physical education teacher can inspire them. we took the position that it's up to our culture to create the passion and then the willingness to work will follow. and because there's an nba kids will learn to bounce a ball. well, we needed to bring nasa. we needed to bring the relevant people that use and apply technology and engineering into a real environment, a hands-on environment, as hands-on as any other sport so when the kids show up at school they realize i want to learn the math without knowing that "e" equals "ir" it let a lot of smoke out of the circuit board because i forgot to multiply by "i" squared. it turns out for better or worse the schools has focused on science as this abstract thing and math as this really abstract
3:20 pm
thing. we are bringing to the school relevance. we're showing kids that it's accessible and it's fun and it's every bit as rewarding as any other thing they do, except unlike the nba that has a few dozen jobs a year, right now there are a few million unfilled career opportunities because kids can't do it. >> i would agree. you know, the particular part for us is i started out by saying we're on a journey to mars. we know where we want to go. we just aren't capable of getting there right now because we don't have the technology. we don't have the complete suite of technologies that are needed. so, we need kids to be very conversant and competent in science and math, but that's what allows them to be the dreamers that create the technologies we know we're missing. we fiend a lot of things by serendipity. necessity is the mother of invention.
3:21 pm
when we flew the space shuttle we used hydrogen and oxygen in a fuel cell and the by-product of that, the plentiful by-product was water, so we didn't worry about getting water to crews. today on the international space station we don't do that we use the sun to produce electricity and solar cells so we've either got to fly water up which is very costly or we find another way to produce it. so, we take yesterday's coffee. we put it into a water purification system, the technology that has used the science and the math that the kids learn to create a water purification system so the astronauts recycle everything, whether it's urine, perspiration, it makes no dir s difference. we're growing everything. we're growing lettuce. we're growing cherry toe mamato. the serendipitious discovery is
3:22 pm
the same machine that creates the clean drinking water for the astrona astronauts, the infants that die in the world today die from water-borne pathogens if we can take the same machines off the space station and put them into rural villages and not just africa and south america and other places, put them into the south in the united states where kids are dying because they don't have clean drinking water. that changes the whole world. so, that's taking science and math, putting it together into the technology field and getting what the nation needs. >> are we satisfied with the way that s.t.e.m. is being presented to students in the educational institutions across the country and if we aren't, how might we change? >> programs like f.i.r.s.t., vex which is another program similar to f.i.r.s.t., kids need hands-on stuff. my son is back there and he has
3:23 pm
three beautiful girls that are my incredible grand daughters the love of my life. i don't have any trouble with where they will be on the weekend. they will be playing volleyball or basketball or something else because that's what we emphasize. but i want them also to be participating in music or in art and his baby girl is an artist. and she spent all day yesterday, you know, mother's day just creating incredible artwork. that's really important. so, we need to expose them. and the schools need to make sure that there are opportunities for kids to do things like create a robot. create a satellite. today we use something we call -- well, you can call them microsats, you can call them small sats or whatever, but they're about the size of this glass and a kid in elementary school today can be taught how to take a cell phone, take it apart, take the memory card, take the camera and put it into a box that big. we'll take it to the international space station and
3:24 pm
spit it out and they've built a satellite. what kid in elementary or junior high school could ever say that several years ago? so, we're beginning to introduce that into the informal curriculum of schools. but i'll take the informal curriculum as long as the schools will allow us to put it there for now. >> dean? >> everything he said. i think our schools are there to solve the supply side of the equation. i think what's been missing for at least a generation in this country is the demand side. when i was a kid, the demand was created in the culture because i'm older than most of the people, but i remember the new futu sputnik went up and america fat, dumb and happy at the end of world war ii we were unrivaled, everything was good, our parents all wanted to come back and make the world a better place, that their kids would never have to deal with the stuff they went through. and suddenly, sputnik went up
3:25 pm
and it made america realize, maybe we're not just the unrivaled leaders. maybe we have other things to worry about. and i think it energized a generation to really understand the importance, the critical importance, of science and tech. we were in a race. americans are very competitive. we're fat, dumb and happy and having a good time compared to the structured cultures in germany and japan, we're very happy to just, you know -- until we're threatened. so, i think sputnik did it. and then we won that one, you know, and then we sort of relaxed back which is why you were stating numbers like you have because americans -- it's not what we don't have enough of supply. we have the great institutions, but only a few people take advantage of them. they have parents that say, you can play volleyball on the weekend, you better get an "a" in math. well, as i said 25 years ago we were in that mode where i don't think most of american kids ever saw the real value, the excitement, the fun of science and tech because we've created
3:26 pm
role models and superhere rows everywhere else. but i think the next version of sputnik is upon us. china has 4,000 f.i.r.s.t. teams. 4,000 teams. i came back from a trip to beijing last year. i was there representing the national academy of engineers and with a joint meeting with the chinese academy and when i told people that here, they said, dean, you're a traitor, because the chinese do want to do science and math what they are missing is the part about creativity and how to make use of it and the chinese government knows that, so you're helping them. well, think of it as it's the next sputnik, if you were worried about competing, you know, maybe the fact that we now have a couple billion kids on this planet that will all be competitive, maybe the fact that we highlight that will be another call to action in this country to get real hands-on,
3:27 pm
passion excitement in science and technology into the schools which, again, will require industry to help and it's working. and by the way, i think f.i.r.s.t. will also turn out to be a tool of international diplomacy. just like the original purpose of the olympics when it was started in 1894 by business people in switzerland, they said let's create a platform where all the young people in the world get together every few years and compete in something in a positive way. running and jumping and the original athletics of the olympics. well, it's been 120 years. i'm not sure it's turned into a lostfe lovefest as they hoped. but if we now have a single language, mathematics, that is the same everywhere in the world and we have 86 countries this year competed. we had more countries competing a couple weekends ago in st. louis at our championship, we had more countries representing their f.i.r.s.t. teams than they had in the winter olympics and i think getting for the first time
3:28 pm
ever through the connectivity you talked about getting the world's kids to understand that instead of repeating the self-inflicted wounds of their parents and grandparents by which they straight each other by political and cultural issues what if they could all be on the same team fighting against the same challenges, global warming, water, the environment, education, health care, security. we could have a generation of kids worldwide working together, commenting as they do at f.i.r.s.t. and maybe break the cycle of all the self-inflicted wounds and take on the real challenges that the world is going to face with 9 billion people and every one of those challenges is going to require world class technology. >> i was on a panel just to follow-up on your comments, mr. bolden, two days ago where i made the comment that no post-conflict society or developing society could ever achieve its full potential without bringing women fully
3:29 pm
into the mainstream and fully empowering women within society. how can we incentivize the environment in this developed society to bring women more fully into s.t.e.m. and to empower them not just to study but to get them into industry? >> we tell them if you won't survive if you leave half the population behind for one thing. and people sometimes understand that. but, again, i think the best thing is to have concrete examples for them to see. we selected the class of 2013, the astronaut class of 2013, had 6,800 applicants. we selected 8 out of 6,800. half of them were women. half of them were men. those four women in that group have already become superstars. they were superstars in their own right before selection. but that's now four more women who can go into any place in the world and talk about how they became astronauts and they're from all kind of backgrounds. one spent her last year before
3:30 pm
becoming an astronaut in theabilithe an antarctic working with penguins and the other was a member of a rugby team and the only marine selected is nicole mann, f-18 fighter pilot, iraq, afghanistan, you name it and was a soccer player at the naval academy. so, the good thing about them is because we required it is sports is good. sports is important. but sports is a vehicle that helps to build team work which f.i.r.s.t., again, the big thing about f.i.r.s.t. it builds teams. a winning team, for example, when we were in st. louis is actually three teams, you know, you talk about, okay, my team won. well, my team consists of three teams, and since i did better than everybody else, i picked two teams to go along with me. and so they learned to scout. remember, we talked about you need more than just science and math.
3:31 pm
some of them using math are now statisticians they look at the other teams and say, boy, we don't know how to do that, that team, they we clobbered them, but they did this incredibly well. they want to win on the field of battle. they don't want their opponent to have their robots break down so they'll help each other in the pits between contests. and we're incredibly proud to look at the number of schools that can now say they've really been turned around because of something like the f.i.r.s. program that got kids interested in being makers and artist because it takes everything. i'm looking at my press secretary over here and my former press secretary over there who now works for and they are texting away. i don't know that we'd ever heard about texting. when you talk about the arts, social media, absolutely critical today. if we're going to communicate
3:32 pm
with the world, we have got to know how to use social media. i've got some engineers and technologists and people who like me, i don't do twitter. i don't do facebook and, you know, i don't do any of that stuff, but i've got really sharp people who know it and love it and serve to communicate our story to the rest of the world. so, when i talk about the arts being absolutely important, it is. if you want to get your story out, you have to be able to present it in a fashion. morgan freeman, could you think of any more powerful way to tell the story of f.i.r.s.t.? that is not an engineer, that's not a mathematician, it's not a scientist, it's an artist. but he's chosen to take his god-given ability and apply to help kids understand the critical importance of science and math. that's why we believe that s.t.e.a.m. is really important. >> s.t.e.a.m., noted. >> add the "d" for design. there are a lot of designers out
3:33 pm
there. >> dean, any thoughts of the corporation of women or further explanation? >> i'm happy to tell you more than 30% on our teams, more than 30%, are women and minorities and after 26 years of all of our compound growth, that number keeps inching up every year. now, you can say, well, it ought to be 50%. you got me there. but i'll say, look what we're trying to do here. you know what the number of women that get patents on technology is? the percentage of patents that go to women? it's low single digits. how many women are practicing engineers or doing welding? it's all single digits. so, our 30-some-odd percent is pretty good. i'd love to get it up to 50. i think our program has a self-selecting extra value to women and minorities because, again, since i believe it's a social issue.
3:34 pm
i mean, that group ofeople is far more, unfortunately, distracted from the real world of science and technology than kids that grow up in an environment where mom and dad are doctors and lawyers and engineers. the people who really grow up seeing the culture of this country on espn and mtv are at a huge disadvantage. so, even though we try to get everybody into f.i.r.s.t., there's a process by which when women and minorities start to see kids having fun in exactly the same kind of sporting environment, in every way -- i mean, it's always funny to me when they say you are on sports, i'm using it as a model. what do they say plagiarism is the highest form of flattery? i love sports. i have a baseball field in my backyard. i have a basketball court and tennis courts and i love sports and they're good for lots of reasons. well, dean, you're hard on it.
3:35 pm
after all, dean, you even said it, sports are really good, they teach kids team work. you got me there. then why is it when they do team work in a classroom you call it cheating? so, i just think the power of sports -- the power of sports, you can't underestimate it and so we didn't -- f.i.r.s.t. is not like a sport. f.i.r.s.t. is the ultimate sport. it has everything that every other sport except it's giving you passion to develop the skill sets that will build your life, your career in this country. >> so, are we satisfied, then, with where american industry or companies and the government, are we satisfied that sufficient investment in r&d and the processes and the systems of education are under way? >> since i'm government i'll say definitely not. >> for this audience of policymakers, what advice would we give them or ask them to help us with in terms of how we go about the process of
3:36 pm
incentivizing industry and government and improving our r&d and efforts here? >> nasa has a program that we introduced in the 2017 budget for the president that's called new aviation horizons, and it is for the first time in, i don't know, decades, where we'll start building x-planes. if we get the budget. that's the key part. if we don't get the budget, we don't build x-planes. what does that mean when you talk about x-planes? every kid knows, you know, about the -- well, they don't know about the naca, nobody knows about the naca, that's the predecessor of nasa. but everybody knows about test pilots at edwards air force base and breaking the sound barrier. they were experimental airplanes. young men and women today in colleges and universities around the country believe it or not were really excited when they saw the president's budget come out with a significant increase in aeronautics that would enable
3:37 pm
us to do x-planes again because that's what they want to do. they want to design and build new airplanes. they don't want to go to a plant and work on a production line where we're building more and more of the same old thing. dean invents. kids love to go -- i use the term kids because i'm an old man. but people love to go to work for gene. they love to go work for spacex and they love to work for jeff bezos, that's what nasa should be doing. i'm not satisfied that government is doing our part because historically in this country over the last few decades we have abandoned research and development. we have abandoned technology development and that's one of the things that we have increasingly tried to put in the nasa budget. we started a space technology mission. its general is to develop technologies. we can't get to mars based on what we have today. you know, yeah, we can go back to the moon, and we will, but we
3:38 pm
want to get to mars. and in order to do that we've got to have young people coming out of our schools and colleges who are wanting to design and build new things, new technologies that we need. >> dean, any thoughts on that? >> well, you asked whether we're investing enough. i'm not an economist. but i'd say to you it's pretty clear that whatever we're investing, it's probably at least as important to make sure how you invest it as opposed to how much. because i know that we spend hundreds, many hundreds of billions of dollars a year on public education, like i said per capita it's well known it's more per student than the rest of the world. here in washington it's something like $18,000 or $19,000 per year per student and then when you take out the very high percentage that don't go to school or drop out, it's ridiculously high. and then you point out we're number 29 in the developed, number 22 in math, so i would say you can never spend enough
3:39 pm
money on things that really have a good return. and you shouldn't waste money on things that don't. but to give you a sense of why i'm concerned about that, think about this for a second. the entire cost -- dollar cost to have a f.i.r.s.t. team, because you can't monetize the passion. we have 145,000 volunteer technology people as mentors, people that we couldn't pay them, there's not enough money to pay these technologists and they all work for free. and i always thought getting industry to donate all these most valuable things they have, the time and expertise of their astronauts would be the hardest part. it turns out that industry knows it's a great investment to turn these kids on. it turns out we got to tens of thousands of schools, and we didn't run out of volunteers. here is the staggering thing. with the hundreds of billions of dollars we spend on education, almost all of it over the decades, centuries now, is
3:40 pm
locked into fixed costs that can't be changed. teachers have no discretionary budgets. and somehow they have a enough dollars for the parquet floors for basketball and enough dollars for football fields and they have enough dollars to pay the stipend for the teacher that stays after school to become the football coach or basketball coach. and that makes entire sense to me, the teacher that will be there three hours after school ought to get some financial recognition. in 25 years we have had almost no luck getting the school half of the equation to step up even though all the stuff is coming in essentially for free. in fact, it's astounding to me that for less than the cost of one half of one student, a whole school can have a f.i.r.s.t. team, but it's almost impossible to get them to recognize the math teacher or science teacher
3:41 pm
with the same stipend for coaching our team. i think it's an intellectual slap in the face and it limits thing. in that regard, a number of years ago i went to our senators in our little state where f.i.r.s.t. got starts, one's a republican and one's a democrat. i know year after year they try to do the education bill, whatever it is, you guys will know, they finally passed it last year and in it -- i always forget which is authorized and which is approp yat riateapprop the fact that allowed, in fact, it's required in the new bill, the new law now, that schools that meet certain criteria can fund, the feds can fund just the part -- i don't want them to take industry out. but they'll give the teacher the same recognition and stipend and they'll handle the appropriate public school portion of creating our sport and putting it on the same plane as any other sport, so if all of you policy people can figure out now it has to go to the other which appropriation has to come next. you guys ought to figure out how
3:42 pm
to make sure that every school in this country can support a f.i.r.s.t. team and i don't understand how you could let an institution of learning spend its money on all these other things and not give kids this. every kid in this country deserves the opportunity to try this. and the policy people in this country ought to realize it would be the best leverage of your resources to let that happen. the entire f.i.r.s.t. organization has 100-some-odd people now working full time at this 501-c-3 not for profit and we have well over 100,000 volunteers that you couldn't may to put in a classroom. for every person working at f.i.r.s.t. there's 1,000 volunteers working for free. that's leverage. get the schools to bring them in and you'll transform your schools and if you don't do that, this country is going to deserve what it gets. >> really important point. and just a point of
3:43 pm
clarification, i would tell them which to criticize something that administrator bolden would say but i have to take issue with you calling yourself an old man, you happen to be in the prime of your life from one general looking at another general. there are a lot of bright faces on that video. young women and men who were so excited about the learning experience and the competition. how do we get them into the kinds of jobs that will leverage that talent that can secure america's future? >> well, the jobs are there. that's the problem. >> how do we get them into it? >> that's the easy part. the kids leave the f.i.r.s.t. program and the world is their oyster. the schools are fighting over them. we added scholarship row and we had 180-some universities lined up and they are scouting like the football coaches do and by the way we handed over $30 million in scholarships from a lot of little tech schools, some local trade schools like m.i.t.,
3:44 pm
stanford, caltech, georgia tech, they're all lined up, wpi, rpi, they're all there, yale, and they're fighting over these kids. and these kids get an education in tech and there's no question how do you get them into the jobs, the question is every company out there is fighting as to they all want them. >> that's a happy dilemma. >> i encourage them through whatever means possible to invest their time and energy into s.t.e.m.-related courses while they're going -- not -- you can't do it once they get to college. you've got to have it at the elementary level, then it feeds into the secondary level, and then into college. and it makes no difference, again, i always tell young men and women that i talk to, you cannot beat having a technical background, a technical degree because that gives you the flexibility to become a poet, to become an author, anything you want to do the world is your oyster. if you decide halfway through college that you want to be an
3:45 pm
engineer and you haven't taken trigonometry or basic math, you're out of luck. so, there is no -- there is no downside to getting them into technical courses, into the math and sciences as they go through high school and college, it's all up, you know, they can go back. teachers -- some of the best teachers come from programs like teach for america. and they're young men and women who just don't know what they want to do in life, and so they take two years after they graduate from college. those with technical backgrounds when, you know, dean talked about having a physics teacher -- you talked about having a physics teacher who didn't know physics. well, young men and women in teach for america they know physics and they know math and everything else and it gives them an opportunity to take that trade that sooner or later is going to allow them to be an engineer, but to teach young kids in our schools and they do incredibly well. so, whatever you do encourage a young person -- and "young" is a
3:46 pm
relative term, okay? i use the term too loosely. encourage a person who has never experienced science and engineering. and the other thing is you have to help kids understand engineers are not only the person in the front of the train. and that may sound trivial to some of you. coming from my community, coming from the african-american community here in the united states, you say engineer, and the vast majority of kids think you're talking about the guy at the front of the train. that is not -- that is not an engineer that we're looking for. we're looking for someone who can look at a system and who can help to integrate things. so, had a young member of the society of black engineers who i was talking about inspiring people when i first became the nasa administrator because i said the president told me he wants to inspire, inspire, inspire. and it was a young man who was president of the chapter of the society of black engineers, he
3:47 pm
said, if you say "inspire" one more time i'm going to puke. and i went, "i beg your pardon?" he said, i know what you're talking about, but he said you cannot inspire anyone until you expose them. and so that is the key. we've got to take them by the hand and take them in and let them see that science and engineering and technology, not only is fun, but it's available to them, that there is an incredible demand for them, much more demand than it is -- like dean said, for somebody who can dribble a basketball, you know? that's -- you're battling against the odds trying to become the next lebron james. to become the next dean kamen? get your degree. and go out and invent stuff. nobody can take that from you, you know? nobody can take that from you and you're probably going to be better than anybody else around because you're passionate about it.
3:48 pm
>> now you know why we love having nasa as one of our great sponsors. by the way, humility is one of his weaknesses. but last at our championship where we filled an 80,000-seat arena and then around town we needed to fill the rest of st. louis, it looked like olympic village, but one ceo we recognized an organization or an individual for helping to bring f.i.r.s.t. to every school in the country and now around the world, and it's been given out 24 times, only one organization's ever gotten it twice. once about 22 years ago and once a couple of weeks ago, and nasa has demonstrated that they've earned it year after year. again, as a matter of policy, you should go home and ask yourselves, how can any school in this country, in the 21st
3:49 pm
century, not be doing everything possible to give kids a passion for science, technology, and engineering. and we found the simplest, easiest, most cost effective, fun way to do it that is consistent with our culture. we're not going to become rigid and regimented. we're not going to be beating on kids to fenspend ten-hour days school and summer vacation and kids have to go home and need the summer off or work in the fields or whatever it was, but this country, its biggest strength is the passion that freedom gives kids. the trouble is their passion is being misdirected to things that will not give them careers. and we've solved that problem for you. but it's so antithetical to the process inside education. and technology moves so quickly, i don't think we can expect and, therefore, we can't blame the schools, for not making these changes.
3:50 pm
but we brought now 3,700 tech giants including people like nasa, saying, we're here to help! windshie we'd love to work in cooperation with the schools. we call the our competitions cooperatet cooperatetitions. every school should have a football team and basketball team and every school should have a first team, and everything you need to do to make that happen, that's your homework assignment. >> that's terrific. we will go for about half an hour, and you will be handed a microphone, i believe, and when you get that, please stand so we can see who you are and tell us your name and your affiliation, and then try to keep your question short. sir, please. >> rich cooper and former member
3:51 pm
of the nasa team for many years and proud uncle to a young man who was in st. louis a couple weeks ago and he was already on a path for great things and he is now more inspired, so thank you for that. and i had the pleasure in working with the education program for a number of years and one of the things that nasa was doing is creating the educator astronaut that would better help connect students to the program as well as teachers to the program. i am curious as to where that is going, and i know they are part of the core, and where they will be in trying to communicate all of these great experiences. >> we felt the best way to get educators as astronauts is not single them out, and they are not educator astronauts any more, they are just astronauts. you used to have a technical undergraduate background, and a person who is teacher and caught in technical courses, math,
3:52 pm
science and the like is academically eligible to apply as an astronaut, and we have ricky arnold, and richie, they have flown already and they are astronauts that happens to be school teachers, and rickie arnold is out here from maryland, and i want him to come here but he wants to fly more. they are competitive as astronaut applicants now. >> please, this gentleman in the front row, please, and i will work my way back. >> i am allen shifer. you are focusing on certain ages, and what can we do to capitalize into retrain and
3:53 pm
retain these people in the workforce as valuable members of society? >> nasa, we, over the last couple of years in the education program, we now have begun to integrate community colleges into our area of focus, and we were looking for college graduates, and today because, you know, a person turning a leaf or a person working in a laboratory doesn't need a phd or bachelor's degree in many cases, but we need them to be trained as a technician or whatever it is, and we focus on young women and men in community colleges today and going after veterans, and understanding what their training was for the military which is directly transferable. a rifleman today is a technician. don't know the last time you looked at a weapon, it's a computer, and looking through a scope, and you are doing math in
3:54 pm
your head, and you know, some is done for you by the weapon, and an artilleryman, it's math, math, math, and those are things we are doing. we are trying to help retrain people into the fields that we need to get us to mars. i think dean is probably doing the same thing. >> the good news is when you look at all the volunteers, you almost need to be at a first event to feel it. it's a lovefest of technology. a lot of the people there are certainly not 6 to 18, and there are some world class senior, talk to somebody, and what do you do when you are not -- i am the chief technology at wherever, at google, and wow, that's neat, and other people, i just got out of the military and i was this and wanted to do that, and it's a great place to network because you have 3,700
3:55 pm
companies, so i think there's a process going on and blending all the people together, and there was a time when education was the skill set you learned and it worked for a lifetime. it just did. an artisan, you learn something, and today there's no skill set you have today, especially in the technology field that will be worth a damn in four or five years, you know. we went from telegraph to telephone and that was a generation or two, but we went from the internet to e-mail to texting to snap chat you know in the lifetime of some of these technologies is six months. education is not the destination. it's a process. in the world of technology you will either learn how to learn or you are toast. a kid coming out of school with a technical degree, i hope these days, understands what their education gave them was the ability to keep adapting to future technologies because they
3:56 pm
don't have a skill set that is not going to be obsolete very soon. >> if any of the audience members wanted to attend a first event how would they find that out? >> we used to have one event at the end of the year, and i give everybody my card and say come to the high school gym, and after five years we out grew a venue in new hampshire, but if you use the towards model, kids can watch the super bowl on tv, and they can watch the world series, and unless there is little league in town or t-ball, the kids can get into baseball before they can run, unless you can make it local and can't get them, as you said, we have to start early. so we started to do regional events. by our tenth year, we had one regional every weekend in march around march madness before the championships happened in atlanta at the georgia dome. we keep building more and more regionals to be more expensive,
3:57 pm
and the first would have been airplanes and hotels for kids to play, so this is the card that i give out now, this year's season, which each weekend in march, we had 126 cities hold their regionals, little cities, so we had 126 events and i can guarantee you nobody in this room is out of driving distance to one of our march madness events. >> if you looked, the convention center was full one weekend, i think it was march or late february, and that was several regionals, so they are everywhere. >> regionals in downtown washington. >> this march madness is really madness when it's all said and done. a lady all the way in the back. >> thank you very much. i am from the university of
3:58 pm
wisconsin. the mars project, we're dealing with an age in which students have relatively short attention spans and mars fatigue could be setting in and some of the other interests projects, and one doctor pioneered the yss project in which the stars are the object and 100 years is the goal and there are public forums and a lot of research being done as to how to get there, and how can we stimulate people going towards that lengthy goal? >> we are going to mars in the 2030s, and that's a long time from now unless you happen to be in the program, and that says we don't have enough time to get ready, and that's 14 years from now. we are talking about humans in the martian environment in the 2030s and we are going to do that. but there are all kinds of precursors. how many of you saw the movie "the martian "? anybody read the book? those of you -- i didn't read
3:59 pm
the book, and we know in the book he gives you what nasa has been doing for the last 40 or 50 years and it's called precursors. every time you turn around, we are sending another satellite that will be an oriter. we have to figure out how to get it and bring it back to earth. there are other planets in the solar system, and new horizons sent to pluto back in july -- boy, the year just keeps going, but, you know, it was a long journey, nine years to get there, and things that we want to do now is increase the speed of transit, so i need young men and women who are interested in propulsion, and mars, eight months today, and it's too long for a number of reasons, and for
4:00 pm
the human body that's much more exposure to radiation and the like, so things that are happening right now is what we are trying to do, bring young people in who can work on something that can see a return in the next two years as opposed to the next 14 years. a student in a university can start working on an x plane fly, and if they start as a freshman they will see it fly before they get out of school, if they are working on cube sets, they can build a cube set in a matter of six months, and the way we respond today, we can fly their cube sets as what we call a hosted payload, so we stick it on a satellite that is going to space anyway, get it up there and throw it out, and for a week or two, these kids, you know, they have their own control center in their school and they can sit there and watch their satellite as it brings an image to earth or pipes down a
4:01 pm
preplanned message saying hello, i am here, and i am the cube set from st. mary's high school or something like that. >> terrific. halfway down the aisle, sir. >> i am john workman with the association of geographers. we had a huge growth in our membership because of the technology and we are currently working in the k-12 field to try and get the college board to adopt an ap gis course. >> you want to tell everybody what that is. >> geographic information systems. so we have been trying to get the course adopted so kids will think about gis about the k-12 age which they currently only do at the college age, and the president signed the new 12-k law for the student, every student succeeds act, and one challenge is it basically returns most federal education dollars to state control, and i guess the question is, how do we
4:02 pm
get the states as individual entities to think about that education and focus on it without a federal priority for it? >> and mr. burger, stand up a second. so -- >> that was a really great question. >> hand him the microphone, please. >> it's a terrific question, although we support returning the funding decisions to the state and the localitielocaliti just the state, and it's ground up, and a set of three directors, some states like california, and they work with the local education programs to promote stem and the first concept as dean says to bring it into their school with the funding. you need to work with organizations that have a local footprint and many of the organizations in the education arena do, and that's at least my opinion on it. >> if you are from a state, every state, every county has
4:03 pm
4-h, and one of the reasons nasa collaborates with the department of 4h, we have 50 what we call the education -- >> land grant. >> yeah, it's in the land grant college in each state where there is the nasa space consortium, and it's 50 around the country. 4h is in hundreds of counties. nasa, we provide the content. we provide information on science, engineering, you name it, and it gets out to every county in the country, so that's one way to get it, whoever asked the question about how do you get it, how do you get the schools to adopt the -- to use the funds for science and engineering and the like, but -- we partnered as i mentioned earlier with the department of education, and it's the same thing, trying to work with the
4:04 pm
states to get them to understand the absolute value of stem education and the fact they have got to take this money and reinvest it in giving their kids an opportunity to getting in stem education fields. it's up to you all to not let the states and the counties and the municipalities that control the schools, don't let them off the hook. if you do, it will end up being somebody's football stadium. >> the gentleman in the back against the wall. >> i have a question about the big concepts -- >> please identify yourself, sir. >> henry steven perez, and i am a physician. i specialize in helping people at an individual level grasp the concept staring us in the face, intelligence, the idea -- i am a cancer doctor, and we are changing the way we think about cancer. for 100 years we were focusing on the cancer cells and now we
4:05 pm
are focusing on the intelligence of the surrounding environment and that's the only word we can use, intelligence, and as scientists we don't have a word for that, really. my question is simply this, if you think about how scientists or thoughtful people might think about the concept of intelligence in 1916, when it started at the dawn of the industrial revolution, or 100 years before that when we were solidly in the agriculture economy, we would have certainly come up with certain definitions for what we thought intelligence was in 1816 versus 1916, and we are here 2016 and i am wondonwog if this was a good time to think about that as we start to retool the whole thing. >> terrific question. >> i think what you said was, some of the most fundamental presumptions that we have made
4:06 pm
throughout time, you only went back to 1816. you can go back 1,000 years before that. you could go back a few hundred years before that and it's called the dark ages. nobody in their own time ever realizes -- i doubt some monk during the dark ages said to the monk, i got a great idea, and i got whacked in the head, you can't have a great idea, don't you know this is the dark ages? i think today cancer, as an example, my brother is an oncologist, and he would say we should not be treated the disease but the patient and by the way, it's the immune system, and the cell is the symptom, and it took 100 years to get there and now we are starting to get somewhere. all you said, i think, was the fundamental perfeception of wha we know and how we are going to use that moving forward is critical because the world is
4:07 pm
moving faster than ever and all the other jobs you could have, you could make a living as a farmer, you could -- in 1816, you could make a living in production lines, in 1916. today there's nothing left, if it can be done by menial labor it's being done by a machine or computer or robot, or -- what i think you said was going forward, intelligence, and how to add real value to solving real problems is going to be the only way humans can succeed in moving forward because everything else looks like the dark ages and it brings me back to saying, why don't we make sure kids have a broad-based education, particularly with analytics and mathematics. >> i apologize because i didn't think i had an answer. we talk about demand.
4:08 pm
there's no shortage of supply. the big question today is demand. we have now facilitated the potential success of a commercial space industry. why potential? we have more rockets and rocket companies than you can shake a stick at here in the u.s., so we returned the ability to launch to u.s. shores, spacex, and are we lacking? a demand, a place for those things to go and for all of these astronauts that people claim they were going to open up the world for with commercial space because everybody wants to go to the international space station. we need more platforms in orbit. on the international space station, we work with the nih, and dean mentioned the human immune system and we don't
4:09 pm
understand it, and it goes through changes when you go into the microgravity of space, and we have learned a lot over the 30 and 40 years humans have been flying, and we just finished the first ever study in human jaw gnomics with the twin study, and identical twins. we will get more new knowledge from the twin study than people ever thought was imaginable. we have the ability to do this as a nation in an international space community but we have to respond and provide the demand and put more platforms out there, if you want to be a pharmaceutical developer put a platform up in space where you can send the seeds without astronauts, and astronauts are horrible when you want to be pharmaceuticals development, because we have to exercise and every time we get to a treadmill
4:10 pm
or bicycle, you don't know it but the vehicle starts to shake and that drives the material processor berserk, because you are making the microgravity and having no gravity affect your project and you are introducing a astronaut that has to exercise and now you are shaking your stuff. take a small platform away from the international space station and put your pharmaceutical development there and put your materials and processing there and you will get pure semiconductors and great drugs and all kinds of stuff and that's the demand we don't have yet because everybody is sitting back and relying on nasa to provide the international space station, and that's not a demand for a space commercial industry, and i have said that for seven years now and we have to create the demand for the supply that we are developing. >> thank you for that question. two-thirds back, the lady with her right hand up. i promise to come to the other
4:11 pm
side of the aisle here in a moment. >> my name is autumn lewis and i am with the national council with teacher equality, and we we have not talked about the shortage across the country, and so how do you think states and districts can have students go back into the classroom -- >> quit telling girls they can't learn math and science. >> a great question. >> i will go with that and say let's be realistic. the industry is willing to pay unbelievable premiums for kids that know engineering, and the fact is the marketplace is saying if you have a degree in engineering or mathematics, or opportunity to make two or three or four times as much as a teacher can make, it says whatever have been the challenges to get people to be
4:12 pm
great teachers, it's tougher if their science and technology teachers. my mom was a teacher and i hate to say this but i think an unintended consequence of preventing women when my mom was a young woman from go into business and doing all the other things that women should have a right to do, an unintended beneficial consequence, smart women went out to teach and the most valuable thing the country has is kids and these young and talented women became the teachers, and now the incredibly talented women might go somewhere else, and so as a pragmatic guy, i would say it might be naive to assume you would be able to attract the best of the best of the world of tech and put them in a classroom and they chose to be an engineer or science, and they chose to be teaching, and lebron james is not a physician ed teacher, and
4:13 pm
that's okay, he would not have as much impact on a whole generation of kids if he was in one classroom and he is there to create demand and the teachers have the skill sets to teach it. i think what we ought to be doing, and what he does very well, we have taken 140,000 world class passionate people, many of whom are people, scientists, and engineers, and let them be the role models and work with the schools and let them be -- we called them the mentors and not the teachers and you have the best of both worlds. you get people to be role models working directly with the kids and you can't buy passion and they want to do it and they do it effectively and bring into the schools the world class capability of professional science and engineers to inspire the kids, and the teachers have no problem, and if the kids are passionate to learn the teachers will do just fine. i said let's redefine the
4:14 pm
problem, it's not the education problem, and let's find 100,000 young scientists and engineers would want to become teachers and be good teachers and we can pay them and none of those assertions are likely to happen quickly, but let's create a partnership between great schools and let them have access and get the whole tech community being there and cheering for the kids and helping to be the role models, and that we can do. >> we can do two more questions and then give time at the end for both guests to summarize quickly. >> thank you for coming. i am have ivy capital management. i am -- >> a little closer to your mouth. >> i am reminded of cheryl sandberg's favorite book growing up and it was called "wrinkle in
4:15 pm
time", and i am not sure if you read it lately, but it's a fascinating book which inspires individuals who are at a k level 6th grade level or high school level, and i am curious if stem would create or if you could somehow put that type of passion where you could actually -- when you are reading that type of book, which is, again, maybe a 250-page book so it's a quick and easy read where you can inspire that type of passion and creativity through graphic novels and comic books and games? >> first, i have to tell you, jeff basos is pretty cool, and he has a mother, jackie, and a father, mike, who i was on the phone with this morning actually. they came to the championship and are huge sponsors and
4:16 pm
supporters and based on what you said we could figure out how to get amazon to spread that book among all of the constituents and i will work at doing it, but your point, i think, inspiring young kids to see how accessible and how much fun science and technology is is the simplest and most effective solution to what has been now for more than 25 years the big concern of industry and government in this country, and just how much we lag the rest of the world and it's, again, you can say it over and over and over again, it's not the school's problem and they won't be able to fix it. we need to fix it. the business of america has always been business and if we decide as a culture we will promote something, it works. we are not 29th in the world in the olympics and they are all amateur athletes. this country needs to focus in a real hurry, and we're in a race with catastrophe, and i don't
4:17 pm
want catastrophe to win but inspiring kids by whatever means it takes will be the solution. >> science fairs. i fell in love with science in seventh grade, and my seventh grade teacher introduced me to the science fair and i did not do one after that. you don't have to do a big project is what he told me, just do one. you have to. if you are going to get a grade in my class you will do a science fair project, so it was a classroom science fair and then went to the school -- the president, you know, the reason he brings hundreds of kids to washington, c. every year is to try and emphasize the critical importance of allowing a student to participate in something that is available to every single student, and it doesn't require a lot of money, and my first one was getting a solar cell and having it ring a bell when i took a flashlight, and that's pretty basic. but getting kids into science
4:18 pm
fairs, you can do that in elementary and high school, and you won't catch everybody but some will be hooked. math fairs. you could go on and on and on. >> ma'am, all the way in the back please. this will be the last question. >> i am rebecca clem, known as the numbers lady, and i work to get young kids interested in building and i challenge you all, and i will be two playgrounds with esty, and it can be done preschool to phd, and all the numbers phruz plus d i teach teachers how they can bring activities into their room. they are afraid they won't have time for the test but i show them how the kids get so engaged with my pattens on puzzles and
4:19 pm
building and it's a math teacher, and math is fun and not out of a textbook, and so i would like to talk to you about bringing it down lower which is the only age i never have done and i love having the parents be busy while the kids are busy so they don't do it for them, so i have things for them. it's called building numberopolous. i have kids from young ages create puzzles and houses that reflect new merrick patterns. >> for the numbers lady, thank you for that unpaid commercial. well done. that's very important what you are doing, and let's have one more question. the gentleman in the back with the blazer. >> thank you. last november you said the united states could include the chinese human space program, but
4:20 pm
congress ban that collaboration, why is it necessary for the countries to work on the space program, and do you think in the near future is it possible for the two country to start working such kind of a program? >> i think what we do today with china as a partner in areas other than human space flight, it's a matter of law that we can't do bilateral activities with china in human space flight and i believe it will happen one of these days, and it's not something that i am presently focused but we work with china on an incredible basis, and looking at globalization in the himalayas, and looking at earthquakes and even looking at some aspects of lunar science. you take what you can get and you go, and i -- that's the one thing that is different between
4:21 pm
nasa and say a company, and government is inherently slow, and so if you want to work inside the government environment, you have to be patient. am i happy? no. are we making progress? yes. one of these days nobody would have ever dreamed, you know, when the -- before the berlin wall fell that the u.s. and the former soviet union would be collaborating in space. today, as a matter of fact, as a direct result of the berlin wall falling and the soviet union falling apart it was a geopolitical decision, and we needed to find somewhere for soviet and now russian scientists and engineers to go so they wouldn't do bad things. what better place to send them than to collaborate with nasa and our international partners in building an international space station. a lot of people think the
4:22 pm
international space station start with russia and the u.s. and russia was the last of the five partners to be brought in and president clinton direct nasa to integrate russia, the russian space agency into the international space station, and today they are one of our five partners, and a key partner. patience is virtue. it will happen in time, and it won't happen during my tenure as the nasa administrator, because i go with the president, so when the president leaves i leave. but it will happen. be patient. >> in a world where we tend to concentrate way too much on confrontati confrontation, it is with u.s. and china and russia where we can find a lot of common ground in the area of space and technology. >> it's hard to hate people, and i will say this as a 34-year-old marine, we deal with a lot of bad people, and general allen will tell you this and my son will tell you this, and if you want bad people to become good
4:23 pm
people, you have to engage them. if you choose not to, i can guarantee you, they are going to stay really bad people. a lot of people don't like to hear that, but we spend a lot of time dealing with people who want to be like us, want what we have, but don't know how to do it and so we try to go out and teach them. that's what general allen still does today. his wife is wishing that he would quit. but it's in his blood. >> ladies and gentlemen, there's still a forest of hand going up every time i ask for questions and i think that indicates how rich this panel has been. let me ask each of our two guests if they would like to make a couple minutes of summary comments and we will go from there. >> your space agency is on a journey to mars and we have lots of things we do that are not just human space flight but we have an incredible science program and we did not talk about that, and we look at
4:24 pm
planets and our own planet earth and the sun and we look at what we call, you know, astro physics. we spend $19.3 billion on education every year. >> ding. >> you heard we have to engage our enemies, otherwise they will become a bigger enemy. two of the phrases used all of the time throughout the first community is gracious professionalism. you heard charles bolden point out, they are competing in the two-minute rounds and in the pits the teams help each other when one as a broken axle. all the teams will cooperate as they compete so we all end up with the best of the best, and it's part of the culture of first. i started by saying this and will end by saying this, in a
4:25 pm
free culture, and there is no culture freer than america, and it's your biggest strength or weakness, and kids are free, and they have a bill of rights and not a bill of responsibilities. we ought to have a bill of responsibilities. in a free culture, when you get to do whatever you want it's incumbent to inspire kids in this country to do it because they have a passion for it. if we are going to recognize in this country of ours that we get the best of what we celebrate and if we want the best of science technology, call it competitive and security, we have to give kids some vehicle, particularly women and minorities that is so appealing to them it's competing for their hearts and minds with what used to be the national pastimes and distractions that are great as long as they are in the right proportion. if you are policy people, all i can tell you, we created a model that is scalability, and every major tech company in the
4:26 pm
country, the teachers and parents love it and everybody loves it but government moves slowly and the great irony is everything moves slowly, but technology something moving quick. you need hands on real learning that develops passion. we have the model. you need to figure out how to get government to be a catalyst to make it available to every kid quickly. if you don't, we will all suffer. >> ladies and gentlemen, tom brokaw not long ago used the term the greatest generation and it was the first time we heard that term coined and he used it in an implication for the outcome of world war ii and the americans and our partners who stood on the ramparts and defeated the enemy, i would contend there is a new greatest generation, and we have seen them in action, and when you saw
4:27 pm
the bright faces on the video here this morning, that's the new greatest generation, the greatest generation that will propel this country and our friends and sometimes our opponents who will become our friends to another level of human existence, and this kind of a conversation today is what brings that to fruition. thank you all for coming. [ applause ]
4:28 pm
4:29 pm
[ all speaking at once ]
4:30 pm
tonight on c-span three at 8:00 p.m. eastern, a hearing on the do-not call list, and a national list of phone numbers that elected to not receive the marketing calls. and they look at the automatic dialing or robocalls for solicitation. this weekend, along with our comcast cable partners we will explore the history of hattiesburg, mississippi. on book tv, author susan yural, her book tells the story of the civil war through the eyes of
4:31 pm
the soldiers and their families. >> so many women were writing to their men at the front saying i don't know what you are fighting for, but you need to come home because we have about one-fifth of the crop we normally do and i buried our youngest in the back and we are not going to have anything left, you need to come home. >> we will examine the vietnam war, and the experiences of charlie company, discussing the battlefields of vietnam and what soldiers had to fight upon their return of the united states. >> they were used as political footballs and part of a morality play and many things but hardly anybody had gotten to tell their story, who they were as young men before they went, and the trauma they went through, and great victories, and it's funny times and horrible times and what happened to them as a generation since they have been home. >> on american history tv, the
4:32 pm
1966 slaying of domer at the hands of the ku klux klan. >> what reason did anybody want to come? they came as a result, the orders from the head of the klan, and they came to kill the whole family. >> learn about the freedom summer school program during the summer of 1964, when volunteers from around the country taught african-americans in mississippi methods of nonviolent resistance and encouraged voter registration. >> there were meetings held throughout the city in various churches preparing the residents and informing them of their political rights and getting ready to register to vote.
4:33 pm
>> wat sunday afternoon at 2:00 on american history tv on c-span3. this weekend on our companion network, c-span, mac thornberry. that's on sunday at 10:00 a.m. eastern. the state opening of british parliament. queen elizabeth delivered a speech on the coming year, and we will show you a simulcast of the state opening of british parliament. this sunday night on "q & a," michael keupbsly talks about his new book on parkinson's disease. >> it's a brain disease, but
4:34 pm
what i really meant, obviously, was thinking, is it going to affect my thinking, and think something how ir earn a living, and that became pretty important. i asked this neurologist what is going to happen, and he says -- he was trying to tell me it was not such a big deal, and he said you may lose your edge as if that was just nothing, and i thought, gee, my edge? it's how a learn a living. it's why i have my friends and maybe why i have my wife. >> sunday night at 8:00 eastern and pacific on c-span's q & a. now the senate juskwrao jud
4:35 pm
committee holds a meeting. it expires in 2017 and the committee looked at potential changes to the law. i'm going to introduce the witnesses first and i'll make my opening statement. and i think senator leahy is on his way. i'd like to have him make his opening statement before we receive the testimony from the witnesses. our first witness is kenneth wainstein. he's a parter at -- thank you.
4:36 pm
wickersham and taft where he serves as the chair of the firm's what collar defense and investigative group. before that he worked for 19 years at the department of justice, including serving as u.s. attorney for d.c. and the first assistant attorney general for national security. he concluded his government service in 2008. serving as homeland security advisor to george w. in that capacity he coordinated the nation's counterterrorism homeland security infrastructure protection and disaster response and recovery efforts. he has an undergraduate degree from the university of virginia and law degree from berkeley. the second witness, matthew olsen. from '11 to '14 he served as
4:37 pm
director of national terrorism system. prior to that he served as general counsel for national security agency, executive director of the guantanamo task force. and spent 18 years at the department of justice including serving as assistant attorney general overseeing national security division. mr. olsen is a professor. undergraduate degree from university of virginia and law degree from harvard. our next witness elizabeth goitein. she served as counsel to senator finegold on this committee. and civil division department of justice.
4:38 pm
she has a law degree from yale law school. next witness, david medine chairman of the civil liberties oversight board. before that he was an attorney fellow for security and exchange commission. special counsel at consumer finance protection bureau from '02 to '12 he practiced law at a firm here in washington. and served as associate director for financial practices at the ftc. he has an undergraduate industry from hampshire college and law degree from university of chicago. rachel brand, she has served as a member of the privacy and
4:39 pm
civil liberties oversight board since 2012. has served as vice president of chief counsel for regulatory litigation at the u.s. chamber of litigation center and practiced law at two firms here in washington. she has served as assistant attorney general for legal policy at the department of justice and associate counsel in the office of white house counsel. she has her undergraduate degree from the university of minnesota and her law degree from harvard. and most importantly, she's been an intern in my office and she's from iowa. you ought to clap for that. yeah. i'm going to make a statement now and then hopefully senator leahy will be here and we'll have the witnesses. i just introduced them to use up time. almost exactly six months ago our nation's oldest ally, france, suffered the deadliest attack on its soil since world war ii.
4:40 pm
in a series of coordinated suicide bombings mass shooters and hostages taken across paris. isis killed 130 people, injured 368. the president of france referred to that as an act of war. a month or so later in december the united states sustained the most deadly terrorist attack on our soil since september 11th, 2001, in san bernardino as you know. a couple inspired by isis opened fire on an office holiday party, killing 14, injuring 22 more. a few months after that, isis struck again in brussels, the home of nato's headquarters. on march 22nd it launched a series of coordinated bombing at an airport and train station that killed 22 and injured 300.
4:41 pm
these attacks underscore that one of our core responsibilities of our government is to insure that those who protect us every day including the intelligence community have the tools to keep us safe. and these tools must adapt to both the changing technological landscape and the evolving security threats that we face. at the same time, the rights and liberties in our constitution are a constant and this committee are vigilant tomeric sure they endure no matter what. section 702 of the fisa act, which provides the government the authority to collect the communications with a compelled assistance of american companies sits at the intersection of these responsibilities. in 2008, after much debate and
4:42 pm
discussion this will always pass by congress and signed by president bush. and in 2012, then, it was reauthorized by congress without any changes and with president obama's strong support. from all accounts, it's proven to be highly valuable in helping to protect the united states and our allies. moreover, the privacy and civil liberties oversight board, the foreign intelligence surveillance board and many other federal courts have found section 702 constitutional and consistent with the fourth amendment. the questions and concerns persist for some about its effect on our civil liberties. most of the concerns relate to the treatment of communications
4:43 pm
collections when it turns out that a targeted foreigner is in contact with somebody inside the united states. but, of course, these are also situations where the program can be highly valuable. by letting our government know if a foreign terrorist plot might reach our shores. so this committee's oversight of this law should continue to be robust and although the fisa amendments act doesn't require congress to reauthorize it until the end of 2017, i'd like to begin the conversation about it well in advance of that reauthorization. that's why i requested the committee receive a classified briefing from the obama administration on section 702 back in march of this year. it's why i am so glad to have such a distinguished panel here with us today to talk about those issues.
4:44 pm
it's why i'm sure we'll continue the public dialogue with the administration and others in the future. as i mentioned, section 702 allows for the targeting of foreigners located overseas for surveillance. the statute specifically prohibits the targeting of anyone within the united states. or any u.s. person wherever that person is located around the world. and it's also prohibited what's called reserve targeting, targeting someone outside the country for the purpose of targeting a specific person who is located inside. under the statute, the fisa court must approve targeting and minimization procedures to insure that only appropriate individuals are subject to surveillance and that limit the handling and use of any communications so collected. and implementation of the statute is overseen by all three branches of government including
4:45 pm
inspectors general. it's true that human error has led to mistakes in implementing the law over the years. it's significant no internal or external review of section 702 program has ever found any instance of an intentional violation of the law. moreover section 702 has been highly important to our national security. the privacy and civil liberties oversight board found unequivocally that it quote, has helped the united states learn more about the membership, leadership structure priorities tactics and plans of internal terror organizations. it has enabled the location and movements of suspects already known to the government. it is led to the discovery of previously unknown terrorist
4:46 pm
plots directed against the united states and foreign countries enabling the disrupgz of those plots. end of quote. the board came to these conclusions about the value of section 702 programs after conducting a lengthy in depth review of it. just as importantly, however, the board found that the program was constitutional and authorized by statute. in addition, the board proposed a number of recommendations to help improve the privacy and civil liberties protections of 702. according to the board's most recent assessment report, just in this february, all of its recommendations have been implemented in full or in part or the relevant government agencies has taken significant steps towards an option. that's encouraging news. among others things i look forward to hearing about the status of these recommendations
4:47 pm
today as we discuss reauthorizing this important national security authority. what i think we'll do is we'll start with the first witness, mr. wainstein and senator -- when senator leahy comes we'll stop and let him give his opening statement. would you proceed, please, sir. >> thank you, chairman grassley. it's an honor to be here with you today to discuss the issues that fisa raises with my distinguished co-panelists. since the attacks of september 11th, 2001. we've been able to build a framework that affords us the ability to intercept our adversary's communications. the centerpiece has been congress's effort to modernize our surveillance efforts by
4:48 pm
passing the fisa act and re-authorizing it in 2012. it is important at the outset to remind ourselves why it was necessary to modernize the foreign intelligence surveillance act in the first place. as you know, the fisa was passed in 1978. congress was persuaded that the surveillance efforts should be subject to a process of judicial review and approval. to effectuate that, congress passed fisa. it established the fisa court and define those types of surveillance that require approval from that court. in defining which surveillances fell in that category congress differentiating by the technology in a way that atpebg. but to carve out from the court approval requirement those communications that were foreign based where the fourth amendment does not apply. however with the changing
4:49 pm
communications technology that started to break out, and the government found itself expending manpower for surveillance against persons outside the united states, the very category of surveillances congress intended to exclude when it proposed the requirement in 1978. that situation became unattainable with the efforts after 9/11. to its enduring credit, congress stepped up in the spring of 2007, and passed the act in july of 2008 and its reauthorization in 2011. on both occasions members from both parties worked in a bipartisan fashion to craft a law that was a significant step forward for both national security and civil liberties. the statute amended fisa in three important ways, and it approved surveillance of
4:50 pm
categories of terror suspects who were overseas without requiring the government to provide an individualized application as to each particular target, and faa prescribed a new streamlined process by which categories of overseas targets can be approved for surveillance pursuant to strict procedural requirements and subject both to review and approval by the fisa court and to substantial oversight regimes by a variety of government entities to include the attorney general, the director of national intelligence, the heads of inspectors general of the relevant agents and the fisa court and the intelligence committees of congress. in addition to providing this authority and prescribing substantial oversight the faa provided for protections for u.s. persons in a significant way by imposing for the very first time the requirement that the government obtain an individualized order from the fisa court when it undertakes surveil anticipates oflance of
4:51 pm
outside of the u.s. it providesed government with the authority it needed but did so with the careful eye on the importance of oversight and the privacy rights of the u.s. persons. since its implementation faa authorized surveillance has been critical to detecting and understanding the threats that we face. that was the case when i was reviewing faa-derived reporting as homeland security adviser in 2008 and it's still the case today as you know from your briefing the other day. importantly besides being implemented effectively it's been implemented responsibly as evidence by the findings that there have been no known instances of intentional misuse of the authority. i ask congress to focus on the three considerations laid out in my remarks. the vital importance of the faa surveillance authority to our counterterrorism efforts. two, the extreme care with which members of congress of both parties crafted and limited this authority when it passed it is and reauthorized it four years later and the findings that the authority has been implemented to great effect in compliance
4:52 pm
with the law and constitution. in addition to the consideration we want to focus on one other important situation which is the severity of the terrorist threat we still face today. given that continuing threat as evidenced by the recent attacks now is not the time to weaken our defenses or scale back on a critical intelligence authority like the fisa amendments act, it's time to make sure the operators have the authorities they need and it's time to reauthorize the statute that's done so much to protect our people and liberties for the last eight years. thank you for the opportunity to speak about this important issue and i look forward to your questions. >> thank you, mr. wainstein. i would ask senator leahy to give his opening remarks at this point. >> thank you, mr. chairman. and i mentioned earlier i was -- we had conflicting schedules this morning. but i think this is a very important hearing. i think a year ago this week the house of representatives
4:53 pm
overwhelmingly passed usa freedom act, several weeks later the senate followed suit. that marked the first major overhaul the government surveillance authority in decades. now, today we're examining the fisa amendments act often referred to as you've noted section 702. this law expires at the end of 2017. so, i'm glad we're getting an early start on this. i hope we can avoid the needless exploration of authorities we saw last year when the leadership two not bring up the usa freedom act until after the expiration. and i'm also glad, i applaud you on this, mr. chairman, that we're holding this hearing in the open so the american people can be part of this. when congress last reauthorized the fisa act in 2012 it was not possible. almost everything about its
4:54 pm
implementation remained classified. since then the obama administration declassified much about the government's use of the law. so, the transparency put in place by the usa freedom act are what are prompting our efforts. we have a lot of work to do. we're still missing a lot of facts about section 702 implementation. additional reforms are needed to protect america's privacy. we also have to restore global trust in the u.s. technology industry. not a minor thing. section 702 is an important tool for our national security agencies. we all acknowledge that. but it's also extremely broad. well, section 702 is aimed at surveillance of foreigners outside the united states, it sweeps up a sizable amount of information about innocent americans who are communicating with foreigners. so, the authority requires strong oversight and transparency and safeguards to
4:55 pm
protect the american people. 2008, again, in 2012, i opposed the fisa amendments act because it lacked these safeguards. and defigspite these concerns at americans' communications being swept up we still do not how much of our data is collected under this authority. i understand the intelligence community is developing a methodology to estimate that figure and that's long overdue, but i applaud that it's happening. it's all the more significant because both intelligence and law enforcement agencies search this data for information about americans. without judicial approval. and these backdoor searches i think raise some serious constitutional questions. i ask consent to enter into the record written testimony from several organizations raising additional concerns including
4:56 pm
third way and electronic frontier. >> without objection they will be included. >> let me conclude with this. i know we're going to hear about the importance of this authority to our national security, and i understand that. it's a conversation we should have. but we also must assure that surveillance programs operated under section 702 respect the other part of american security, our liberties and our constitutional values. because unless they align with that, then it's a false sense of security. i look forward to hearing from our witnesses. thank you. >> thank you. now mr. olson, would you continue? >> yes, thank you, chairman grassley, ranking member leahy, distinguished members of the committee i'm honored to be here this morning to talk about this important issue. as the former director of the national counterterrorism center i can attest to the value that faa has provided to our national
4:57 pm
security. it significantly has contributed to our ability to prevent terrorist attacks inside the united states is around the world. also as the former general counsel of the national security agency and as a former official at the department of justice's national security division i was responsible in those jobs for ensuring that the law was implemented in a way that complied with the law, the constitution, and protected the privacy and civil liberties of americans. in my brief remarks this morning i will focus on the operational aspects of section 702 and the value that this authority has provided to our counterterrorism es. i think to start to appreciate the importance of section 702 it is helpful to describe briefly the threats that the united states faces from terrorism. over the past several years the range of terrorist threats we face from al qaeda-linked groups has expanded and become more diverse. by any measure the so-called islamic state or isis presents the most urgent threat to our security today. it whas seized territory and is
4:58 pm
governing territory and is obtaining the allegiance of terrorist groups across north africa and the middle east. it has the ability to recruit and train and execute external attacks as we've seen in paris and in brussels. it has the ability to incite other assailants around the world. looking more broadly isis is not the only threat we face. they are seeking to carry out attacks against the west. al shabaab maintains a safe haven in snolia and threatens our interests in the region and aqim and boko haram continue to maintain their operations in north and west africa and al qaeda core continues to support attacking the west. it's vying with isis to be the leader of the global jihad. the kocore leadership wields grt authority over the al qaeda in the arabian peninsula.
4:59 pm
aqap has sought to bring done an airliner headed for the united states. there's every reason it has the capability to carry out this type of attack. against this backdrop the ability of the united states to conduct surveillance under 702 is vital to our security. i relied on daily intelligence briefings from information collected by 702. this intelligence was instrumental to our efforts to discern the intentions and capabilities of our terrorist adversaries contributing to both strategic judgments and tactical insights. two cases declassified highlight the value. in september 2009 analysts used it to target an e-mail address by al qaeda in pakistan. it discovered a message sent to an individual in the united states and colorado and he was urgently seeking advice on how to make explosives. further investigation revealed
5:00 pm
that zazi and a group of operatives had imminent plans to detonate explosives in the new york subway. he was arrested and the attack was stopped before it could occur. in another case nsa conducted surveillance of an e-mail address of a suspected extremist in yemen and it led to a discovery between that person and an unknown person in kansas city, missouri, following investigation revealed that he was connected to on other al qaeda associates inside the united states who were part of an earlier plot to bomb the new york stock exchange. they were prosecuted and pled guilty. in the context of these cases zazi and usani it's worthy to point out the role of incidental collection in 702. the government collected information of the operatives inside the united states directly of their contacts with 702 targets overseas. it w

5 Views

info Stream Only

Uploaded by TV Archive on